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The principle commodity for PvP in Crowfall should be the Player

That's a valid point if PvP is your focus. That's not a knock mind you, I'm saying your viewpoint is valid for you. And, given what Crowfall is going to be based on it's my viewpoint as well, generally speaking, in Crowfall.

The thread has sort of drifted gently into a bit if reminiscing, but there is an answer (from the past) to your question " then what's the point?":


The people thing - teamwork.


While it wasn't PvP, per se, some of my best times in MMOs have come from some great Raiding with a bunch of dedicated players. That was pretty hard-core, even if not PvP. We had designated Raid nights, and start times. Had to, because you didn't clear an instance in 10 to 20 minutes. The run might last hours, particularly if we were still working to crack the challenges, the bosses not "on farm" yet.


The people that made the Raid Team where the ones that proved they could show up on time, prepared, and had the necessary situational awareness, class understanding, gear/stat levels, etc. The key here is the TEAM work thing was critical. If you had a new person to the Raid, regardless of their gearage, everyone knew some bruises were going to be had for the Raid, depending on what role they were going to learn.


There was no face-rolling through stuff. The challenges would CRUSH the facerolling I see as the standard nowadays in "speed runs". Again, the context here is on-level end-game, not over-leveled OP beyond the original design intent of the instance.


You had teams with designated roles, each team having to do what was necessary to their designated targets, on time, and properly, or things got out of control . . . and the raid wiped. Anyone here remember the FIRST challenge into Black Wing Lair, hmmm, Razorgore? That entry scenario was worse than a bunch of the deeper challenges, some guilds failing that first scenario for weeks.


I remember some good times in Kharazan, again, scenarios requiring duty-assignments with specific mob targets to people, and you had to keep your part of the fight under control so the rest of the Raid could work through kill targets. Chain trapping one of Moroes' attendants like 6 times in a row while pulling and kiiting someone else's mob that got out of control at the same time was a rush, because you were "saving lives" of your fellows as they scrambled to adapt to the oopsie, all the while Moroes was, of course, gleefully putting his Garrotte on selected, random targets regardless of the Tank in his face.


For me, the "why bother" part is the same as it is in PvP. The bridge if you will between PvP and PvE play:  


People. In truly challenging scenarios at the teamwork level.


It was a lot of fun because of that.


And you aren't necessarily wrong.


The trick here is: I've met some people more predictable than AI's. lol. Many people establish predictable, repeatable patterns, particularly if their focus is Farmvilling (and I mean this within the PvP context as well), especially if a game is based on gear/level/stats to carry that.  Assuming the PLAYER will the the principle enabler in PvP capablity in Crowfall that's going to go a LONG ways in enhancing / developing / maximizing what you said in PvP (IMO).


The principle commodity for PvP in Crowfall should be the Player, not gear/stats, per se.


I'm a straddle guy. I like PvP a lot, but also enjoy and see the beauty in well designed PvE as it relates to People and Teamwork.  And well designed environments (open world) for PvP.  My intent in the prior post wasn't to hold PvE or PvP up against each other in competative fashion, but to point out my view where they overlap in a same area:  People and Teamwork.


Crowfall should be fun. I've not actually engaged in any testing yet. I sort of don't like to spoil my first-entry to a game, if that makes any sense. But, we'll see how my schedule goes as things progress.


Take care, have a safe holiday.

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